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Old 12-03-2017, 04:21 PM   #21
AlyKat
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Originally Posted by Hi Hat View Post
As screetchy as this is it comes out almost like the melody of a song.

It is like a melody & it's quite catchy. I like it. Less screetchy would be even better
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Old 12-03-2017, 05:26 PM   #22
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Here is something interesting that I've vaguely thought about before but hadn't seen it listed out before.
The C major (Ionian) scale (C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C) goes with the I: major 7 chord (Cmaj7).
The D Dorian mode (D-E-F-G-A-B-C-D) ...
The E Phrygian mode (E-F-G-A-B-C-D-E) ...
The F Lydian mode (F-G-A-B-C-D-E-F) ...
The G Mixolydian mode (G-A-B-C-D-E-F-G) ...
The A Aeolian mode (A-B-C-D-E-F-G-A) ...
The B Locrian mode (B-C-D-E-F-G-A-B)

Example, all those scales listed below C major, are just C major but 'calling' a different note the root, but when playing a lead, it doesn't matter where on the neck you play it as long as 'you' know which note is the root.

So, all scales are really just another key's 'major' scale.
D Dorian is C major but played in the key of D
E Phyrgian is C major played in the key of E
etc.

Instead of learning all the mode, one could just get good at the major scale, then know which major scale to play over which key, to fit that mode.

Like for the key of A, these mode just do the reverse of the above and you go back one key's major. Each successive mode is one full step back in that keys major
If you need major, you play A major
If you need A Dorian, you play G major
If you need A Phyrgian, you play F major
If you need A Lydian, you play E major
etc.

So B major has the same notes as A locrian
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Old 12-03-2017, 06:26 PM   #23
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Here's a cool example.
C major, same exactly as D dorian

https://musicmotivated.com/wp-conten...otes-chart.jpg

http://www.guitar-chords.org.uk/mode...nfretboard.gif
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Old 12-03-2017, 07:09 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by ronpfid View Post
Here is something interesting that I've vaguely thought about before but hadn't seen it listed out before.
The C major (Ionian) scale (C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C) goes with the I: major 7 chord (Cmaj7).
The D Dorian mode (D-E-F-G-A-B-C-D) ...
The E Phrygian mode (E-F-G-A-B-C-D-E) ...
The F Lydian mode (F-G-A-B-C-D-E-F) ...
The G Mixolydian mode (G-A-B-C-D-E-F-G) ...
The A Aeolian mode (A-B-C-D-E-F-G-A) ...
The B Locrian mode (B-C-D-E-F-G-A-B)

Example, all those scales listed below C major, are just C major but 'calling' a different note the root, but when playing a lead, it doesn't matter where on the neck you play it as long as 'you' know which note is the root.

So, all scales are really just another key's 'major' scale.
D Dorian is C major but played in the key of D
E Phyrgian is C major played in the key of E
etc.

Instead of learning all the mode, one could just get good at the major scale, then know which major scale to play over which key, to fit that mode.

Like for the key of A, these mode just do the reverse of the above and you go back one key's major. Each successive mode is one full step back in that keys major
If you need major, you play A major
If you need A Dorian, you play G major
If you need A Phyrgian, you play F major
If you need A Lydian, you play E major
etc.

So B major has the same notes as A locrian
Ron, you're on the right track, and what I've been saying. Modes are either minor or major- I think Locrian is its own animal; not sure.

Bb major has the same notes as A locrian. Said another way, Locrian is built on the 7th degree of the parent, or major scale.

Theory can be heady stuff. Even when you can spell out how things are constructed, it can be difficult integrating the sounds, which is my problem. I know how straight major and minor feels, but can't say I know how Locrian feels. I have a better feel for Dominant Phrygian/Spanish/Arabic Phrygian because I've heard stuff along those lines. But it's a goal of mine to learn modes a lot better.

For A Locrian, you can use the G minor pent, and Bb major pents, if you want to go the pent route. It can't sound any worse than I've made it to sound lol. But, since A Locrian is built off the Bb major scale, you have the Bb major pent; G minor is the relative minor of Bb, so you can use the G minor pent.
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Old 12-03-2017, 07:38 PM   #25
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Yes, it's kinda wild, I guess my thoughts were this, you know how we tend to learn a whole new 'pattern/shape' where we start at the root? So in effect we play one pattern for major, or a different pattern for Dorian, etc.? In effect, we could always use the same shape, but WHERE we play that same shape would change WHAT scale it is for a different key.

Play C major scale over key of C and it's C major
Play exact same C major scale, same exact notes, same position on the neck, but over key of D and it's D Dorian, etc.

This might be kind of cool, you could get really proficient moving in that same exact shape, then just know where on the neck to play that shape and extensions for which mode and key you need.
Like when we did that Phrygian jam in E, looking up there, instead of fighting with that weird pattern and shape, I could have just used the C major scale and it's the exact same notes, but easier to coordinate the finger movements since I'm familiar with that pattern.
Does that make sense? lol

re The feel: I hear ya, I have that same thing, I guess one would have to listen to music using a scale enough, that it became a predictable feel kinda thing. I am that way too with many of them. I have NO idea in my head what locrian 'feels' like, so when I play it, it sounds like .. bleh.. no meaning... if that makes sense.

----------------------

Was bored and did some more searching for curiosity's sake, seeing which scales are also the same but in another key, there is one outlier....The only freaky scale that doesn't fit any other, is the blues scale, I did a scale search for notes in the blues scale, due to the added sharp, no other scale has the exact note combos as a 'blues scale'. Then there are two versions, the minorish rock sounding, or moving the same pattern down 3 frets is the more happy melodic version.

Like in A
Doing this pattern with index finger bottom E 5th fret, is the rockish sounding over an A chord.
Notes A,C,D,D#,E,G



Doing this same pattern but with the index finger bottom E 2nd fret, is the melodic sounding version over the same A chord.
Notes, A,B,C,C#,E,F#


So the 'blues' scale, (not all scales labeled blues, but the scale that comes up when you tag a scale just 'blues'), is the odd ball scale with that added 1/2 stepped note.
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Old 12-03-2017, 07:44 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by ronpfid View Post
Yes, it's kinda wild, I guess my thoughts were this, you know how we tend to learn a whole new 'pattern/shape' where we start at the root? So in effect we play one pattern for major, or a different pattern for Dorian, etc.? In effect, we could always use the same shape, but WHERE we play that same shape would change WHAT scale it is for a different key.

Play C major scale over key of C and it's C major
Play exact same C major scale, same exact notes, same position on the neck, but over key of D and it's D Dorian, etc.

This might be kind of cool, you could get really proficient moving in that same exact shape, then just know where on the neck to play that shape and extensions for which mode and key you need.
Does that make sense? lol


----------------------

Was bored and did some more searching for curiosity's sake, seeing which scales are also the same but in another key, there is one outlier....The only freaky scale that doesn't fit any other, is the blues scale, I did a scale search for notes in the blues scale, due to the added sharp, no other scale has the exact note combos as a 'blues scale'. Then there are two versions, the minorish rock sounding, or moving the same pattern down 3 frets is the more happy melodic version.

Like in A
Doing this pattern with index finger bottom E 5th fret, is the rockish sounding over an A chord.
Notes A,C,D,D#,E,G



Doing this same pattern but with the index finger bottom E 2nd fret, is the melodic sounding version over the same A chord.
Notes, A,B,C,C#,E,F#
[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/923/kLzSOi.jpg[img]

So the 'blues' scale, (not all scales labeled blues, but the scale that comes up when you tag a scale just 'blues'), is the odd ball scale with that added 1/2 stepped note.
Yeah, it's pretty cool when the lightbulbs go off (or on) eh?

The blues scale has a flatted 5th, and blues theory, is a whole nother beast. Look in the theory section; an old member wrote massive threads on blues theory. When you start with altered/substituted chords in blues, things get really intense lol.

Check out Robben Ford and the diminished scale in the blues:



I almost, kinda sorta, understand it lol.
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Old 12-03-2017, 07:50 PM   #27
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Yes, blues is weird! I never realized it was THAT unique, it amazes me that added note actually sounds right ever lol
The video, man, that scale is odd sounding!

I guess it comes down to this..
A) one wants to be well versed and accomplished and be able to play and understand all the forms of music
B) one only is interested in playing what 'they' like and sounds good to them.

B is me. I know B benefits from getting some A in their brain, but as far as really digging into music I hate, that I have no interest. Me, I freaken HATE jazz, I hate rap, I have no interest in forcing myself to endure that type of music just to say 'I know how to do that' lol

Flatted 5th: And it depends on which blues scale you use, look at the two versions I posted that both work for the key of A, lots of different notes, yet both work and sound different. Play an A chord and run that pattern on both those positions. Both are blues, but one sounds rockish the other sounds melodic, yet both are 'right'.
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Old 12-04-2017, 12:08 PM   #28
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Goose saunters in ....

"Whats this then.... Locrian?



You have got to be kidding me! What sorcery is this?!
And with that 2-chord progression? Cmon!!

Its LOCO man! LOCO I tell ya!!"

... flies further south....
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Old 12-04-2017, 02:15 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by ronpfid View Post
Flatted 5th: And it depends on which blues scale you use, look at the two versions I posted that both work for the key of A, lots of different notes, yet both work and sound different. Play an A chord and run that pattern on both those positions. Both are blues, but one sounds rockish the other sounds melodic, yet both are 'right'.
What other blues scale? There's only one.
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Old 12-04-2017, 02:25 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronpfid View Post
Here is something interesting that I've vaguely thought about before but hadn't seen it listed out before.
The C major (Ionian) scale (C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C) goes with the I: major 7 chord (Cmaj7).
The D Dorian mode (D-E-F-G-A-B-C-D) ...
The E Phrygian mode (E-F-G-A-B-C-D-E) ...
The F Lydian mode (F-G-A-B-C-D-E-F) ...
The G Mixolydian mode (G-A-B-C-D-E-F-G) ...
The A Aeolian mode (A-B-C-D-E-F-G-A) ...
The B Locrian mode (B-C-D-E-F-G-A-B)

Example, all those scales listed below C major, are just C major but 'calling' a different note the root, but when playing a lead, it doesn't matter where on the neck you play it as long as 'you' know which note is the root.

So, all scales are really just another key's 'major' scale.
D Dorian is C major but played in the key of D
E Phyrgian is C major played in the key of E
etc.

Instead of learning all the mode, one could just get good at the major scale, then know which major scale to play over which key, to fit that mode.

Like for the key of A, these mode just do the reverse of the above and you go back one key's major. Each successive mode is one full step back in that keys major
If you need major, you play A major
If you need A Dorian, you play G major
If you need A Phyrgian, you play F major
If you need A Lydian, you play E major
etc.

So B major has the same notes as A locrian
I kind of do what your saying Ron when improvising. When I was learning modes - no patience for theory I learned it in the key of G . As I practiced each mode I would visualise the barre chord and play round that this helped me when changing key.
Take the Ionian scale this is in the key of G I would visualise the G major barre on the third for the dorian the Am barre on the 5th for the Phrygian the Bm barre chord on the 7th etc.
Do the same on the A string
For me visualising the chord shapes helped with improvising. That and knowing each note on the fretboard at a glance. I wish I had the patience for theory but 30 odd years later I know jack shit and never will now.

I think `seeing` the chord within the scale pattern helps my confidence on what notes I can land on all over the neck. I visualise the chords using the CAGED system if you want to call it that.

If I start an improvised run in G around frets 12 to 15 I would probably think of the barre chords G Root note 10 fret A string the Am Root note 12th fret A string and the G Root note 15th on the low E that is frets 10 to 17 covered with just seeing the notes of those chords.

I don't know if this makes sense - slim says I never make sense lol - but that's the way my brain works
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