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Old 01-17-2018, 02:49 PM   #1
zanshin777
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Default Slash Chord - Maj with 2nd in the bass

https://youtu.be/vfltPoJuf88?t=158 (Pinpointed Link)

He says E Major with F# (2nd in the bass) is F#11 However A#, C# don't exist in E/F#?

E/F# : F#-E-G#-B

F#11 : F#-A#-C#-E-G#-B
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Old 01-17-2018, 04:18 PM   #2
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Technically it's E/F# read as E over F#
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Old 01-17-2018, 04:24 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zanshin777 View Post
https://youtu.be/vfltPoJuf88?t=158 (Pinpointed Link)

He says E Major with F# (2nd in the bass) is F#11 However A#, C# don't exist in E/F#?

E/F# : F#-E-G#-B

F#11 : F#-A#-C#-E-G#-B
The 3rd is always (in practice) omitted from "11" chords. This means that - in effect - "11" stands for (is shorthand for) "9sus4".

So "F#11" = F# C# E G# B. That's C#m7/F#, or E6/F#.

And seeing as the 5th of a chord is the first note you can omit without affecting the overall sound, that means you can lose C# (5th of F#).

Hence F# E G# B = "F#11" in effect.

Personally I still like to make a distinction between F#9sus4 (F#11) and E/F# - that makes for a slightly richer, more subtle sound and helps F# sound like the root - but it's often a negligible difference in practice.
Also, "E/F#" is a neat chord symbol, easily understood, works fine, and more easily played than a full F#9sus4.
Obviously, if you have a bass player, then they play the bass note, and you can play C#m7 if you prefer the sound to a plain E.

Last edited by JonR; 01-17-2018 at 04:33 PM.
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Old 01-18-2018, 03:26 PM   #4
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The 3rd is always (in practice) omitted from "11" chords. This means that - in effect - "11" stands for (is shorthand for) "9sus4".
Does it apply for other Dominant Chords or other maj11, min11 chords?
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Old 01-18-2018, 11:51 PM   #5
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Does it apply for other Dominant Chords or other maj11, min11 chords?
11ths are fine on minor chords.

The issue with maj7s and dom7s is the b9 formed with the M3 below - the classic jazz "avoid note".

With maj7s there's an additional issue. The 11 also forms a tritone with the maj7. A Cmaj11, eg., is a G7 chord on top of a C chord: two opposing functions at the same time = harmonic mess!
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Old 01-19-2018, 10:25 AM   #6
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Sorry, I've meant do we omit 3rds in other dominant chords (7, 9, 11) or maj11, min11 chords in practice?
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:05 PM   #7
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Sorry, I've meant do we omit 3rds in other dominant chords (7, 9, 11) or maj11, min11 chords in practice?
The issue is the interval between a major 3rd and perfect 11th (creating a dissonant minor 9th between). That only occurs on I and V chords in major keys (and III, V and VII chords in minor keys).

It doesn't occur on IV chords in major, and VI in minor, because they have #11s. The interval between a major 3rd and augmented 11th is fine. So maj7#11 and 7#11 chords are OK - no need to remove the 3rd.

The interval between a minor 3rd and perfect 11th is fine. So m11 chords are OK.
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