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Old 01-03-2018, 10:21 PM   #21
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:46 PM   #22
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There's nothing wrong with marketing related to looks and feel. They should stick to that. Most guitars sound good and it's the looks and feel that generally are the deciding factors for most people.

It's just annoying when they have to bring in the BS. It seems that almost everyone does it. I've watched a lot of YouTube videos of people building guitars, from individuals to big name manufacturers. Most of them push this BS.

I saw one high end acoustic handmade guy who was refreshing. He was always up for learning the physics behind things but didn't want to waste time on pseudo-physics, he had checked it all out and he agreed that, for example, there was nothing to the "tap test" that so many builders seem to love. One guy has even hooked up an oscilloscope contraption and stops carving when he gets a middle C (or something like that) from his tap test.

Undoubtedly, he produced good sounding guitars. Most of the people spouting this BS produce good sounding guitars and some even believe it's due to the BS they are spouting. It's not of course.
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Old 01-04-2018, 12:28 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Seattle View Post
There's nothing wrong with marketing related to looks and feel. They should stick to that. Most guitars sound good and it's the looks and feel that generally are the deciding factors for most people.

It's just annoying when they have to bring in the BS. It seems that almost everyone does it. I've watched a lot of YouTube videos of people building guitars, from individuals to big name manufacturers. Most of them push this BS.

I saw one high end acoustic handmade guy who was refreshing. He was always up for learning the physics behind things but didn't want to waste time on pseudo-physics, he had checked it all out and he agreed that, for example, there was nothing to the "tap test" that so many builders seem to love. One guy has even hooked up an oscilloscope contraption and stops carving when he gets a middle C (or something like that) from his tap test.

Undoubtedly, he produced good sounding guitars. Most of the people spouting this BS produce good sounding guitars and some even believe it's due to the BS they are spouting. It's not of course.
Well, guitar makers don't flat out lie; they leave that to the demoers, and those that paid a premium to push the bullshit. Guitar makers just hint at the mythology. This guy says the thin nitro "contributes to the tone." How? In a good way presumably, but what's "good tone?" At one time, distortion was considered "bad tone," but most of us here couldn't live without some dirt.

Is the acoustic guy you're talking about Bob Taylor? He made a guitar out of pallets to show Martin that he could make a great acoustic guitar out of anything. They sell for about $13K (limited run, and you can't beat pallet-wood).

Oddly, Guitar World actually linked this guy's vid: https://www.guitarworld.com/gear/mex...ats-difference

It's ironic that the Road Worn series are all MiMs. And legally, for anything to be labeled "Made in America," is for the product to have been "all, or virtually all" made in America. That means if 51% of something is produced here, it can bear the MIA stamp (broadly speaking; there's FTC rules).

The U.S. doesn't produce the rosewood used on most guitars (there's many species of rosewood). Now that the most popular rosewood has hit the endangered list, look for pau ferro, and other woods suddenly acquire magic mojo.

Know what the diff is 'tween a MiM v. MiA? Less than 200 miles, and about $800 bucks.

I have two "vintage" ish Fenders. The quality of both blow, compared to the quality of my Squiers.
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Old 01-04-2018, 12:44 AM   #24
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What a bunch of nonsense. The difference cost wise is probably more than that..., especially for resale. I have both MIM and MIA strats, and IMO the American is superior in every way. I know some folks don't like this fact, but what is is what is. Oh, and the difference is far more than truss rod adjustment. Does marketing play a part...sure does... but that does not negate the essential differences between the instrument tiers. It was precisely those differences that set the instruments apart and allowed for the marketing approach.

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Old 01-04-2018, 01:13 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle View Post
There's nothing wrong with marketing related to looks and feel. They should stick to that. Most guitars sound good and it's the looks and feel that generally are the deciding factors for most people.

It's just annoying when they have to bring in the BS. It seems that almost everyone does it. I've watched a lot of YouTube videos of people building guitars, from individuals to big name manufacturers. Most of them push this BS.

I saw one high end acoustic handmade guy who was refreshing. He was always up for learning the physics behind things but didn't want to waste time on pseudo-physics, he had checked it all out and he agreed that, for example, there was nothing to the "tap test" that so many builders seem to love. One guy has even hooked up an oscilloscope contraption and stops carving when he gets a middle C (or something like that) from his tap test.

Undoubtedly, he produced good sounding guitars. Most of the people spouting this BS produce good sounding guitars and some even believe it's due to the BS they are spouting. It's not of course.
Tap Tuned or Tap Test????? There is a difference. Tap Test is used on finished guitars to tell if they are any good or not. Tap Tuned is used when constructing the tops of Arch Top guitars. I was at John Buscarino's shop and played a $12,000 Monarch and then a $25,000 Virtuoso(unplugged). I nearly crapped myself when I played the Virtuoso. I asked him why the Virtuoso sounded so much better. He said it had a Tap Tuned top. He said if I wanted Tap Tuned on the Monarch, he could do that.
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Old 01-04-2018, 01:13 AM   #26
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To me it's hogwash. What:, Fender has a broke in Machine???? One that wears the frets, wears the saddles and ages the pickups and wood all at once....No body is gonna buy a brand new guitar with divots on the frets and chancy electronics....I'm probably wrong on that, but it's marketing plain and simple and even old hands that should know better fall for it.
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Old 01-04-2018, 03:24 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Silimtao View Post
You can go to about 1:00 for the first line. I don't have an issue with how the guitars sound. I have an issue with what the guy says. You decide...

Can't imagine how a new artificially distressed guitar can be the same as an old naturally distressed one. Time takes a toll that can't be manufactured.
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Old 01-04-2018, 03:56 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Silimtao View Post
Well, guitar makers don't flat out lie; they leave that to the demoers, and those that paid a premium to push the bullshit. Guitar makers just hint at the mythology. This guy says the thin nitro "contributes to the tone." How? In a good way presumably, but what's "good tone?" At one time, distortion was considered "bad tone," but most of us here couldn't live without some dirt.

Is the acoustic guy you're talking about Bob Taylor? He made a guitar out of pallets to show Martin that he could make a great acoustic guitar out of anything. They sell for about $13K (limited run, and you can't beat pallet-wood).

Oddly, Guitar World actually linked this guy's vid: https://www.guitarworld.com/gear/mex...ats-difference

It's ironic that the Road Worn series are all MiMs. And legally, for anything to be labeled "Made in America," is for the product to have been "all, or virtually all" made in America. That means if 51% of something is produced here, it can bear the MIA stamp (broadly speaking; there's FTC rules).

The U.S. doesn't produce the rosewood used on most guitars (there's many species of rosewood). Now that the most popular rosewood has hit the endangered list, look for pau ferro, and other woods suddenly acquire magic mojo.

Know what the diff is 'tween a MiM v. MiA? Less than 200 miles, and about $800 bucks.

I have two "vintage" ish Fenders. The quality of both blow, compared to the quality of my Squiers.

I don't remember his name. He wasn't making guitars out of pallet wood and he wasn't trying to prove any point. He had checked it all out to learn what was real and what was BS. He just didn't want to waste his time with the ineffective, voodoo stuff.

People, as you know, read way too much into the wood (even in acoustic guitars). Instrument makers traditionally use whatever wood is locally available and when that is used up they go to something else.

White Spruce is strong and therefore can be made thin which can vibrate more. It's not used because it possesses a "tone" inherent to the wood. How it's made, the bracing patterns have more to do with that.
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Old 01-04-2018, 04:04 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKVeazey View Post
Tap Tuned or Tap Test????? There is a difference. Tap Test is used on finished guitars to tell if they are any good or not. Tap Tuned is used when constructing the tops of Arch Top guitars. I was at John Buscarino's shop and played a $12,000 Monarch and then a $25,000 Virtuoso(unplugged). I nearly crapped myself when I played the Virtuoso. I asked him why the Virtuoso sounded so much better. He said it had a Tap Tuned top. He said if I wanted Tap Tuned on the Monarch, he could do that.
Tap tuned. Taping the sound board doesn't tell you anything about what it will be like when it's connected to the rest of the guitar. People try to make a "bright tap" neck with a "dark tap" body. It's nonsense.

That's not to say that an instrument maker doesn't make fine instruments if they use such voodoo. They may intuitively know that when they get a carved soundboard thin enough that it has a nice "tap". They would know it without the tap as well with measurements and they can have a nice tap even when the finished product turns out not to be one of their best.

They tend to tap the sound board and then put in the braces which completely changes the resonance frequencies patterns. More interesting are the results people have gotten in the "laboratory" recording the vibration patterns (using sand) on various parts of the guitar as you use different kinds of braces. That's the kind of info that is useful.

Just to avoid an argument , even if they tap the soundboard with the braces in place it's still not particularly helpful if the soundboard isn't attached to the body.
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Old 01-04-2018, 04:11 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Sixstringplayer View Post
What a bunch of nonsense. The difference cost wise is probably more than that..., especially for resale. I have both MIM and MIA strats, and IMO the American is superior in every way. I know some folks don't like this fact, but what is is what is. Oh, and the difference is far more than truss rod adjustment. Does marketing play a part...sure does... but that does not negate the essential differences between the instrument tiers. It was precisely those differences that set the instruments apart and allowed for the marketing approach.

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The American made Strat is superior because American made trees are better, it's a fact, than Mexican made trees. How could anyone argue with that?
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