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Old 01-09-2018, 09:35 PM   #11
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Here is something to help you make the decision for yourself

Nope, first one, product of intelligent design the second......well ....er ....us
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Old 01-09-2018, 09:46 PM   #12
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Can someone point me to an atheist thinker (actual research scientist or otherwise) who is ACTIVELY attempting to prove the universe is godless? I've watched a LOT of Hitchens, Dawkins, Krauss, Harris, etc. on YouTube and can't recall a single instance where any of them have professed to having actually been working on some kind of PROOF of the non-existence of god(s) or supernatural entities. I've seen numerous instances where some of the above have professed the opinion that these things don't exist, and even instances where they have embraced gnostic atheism - the position that they claim to KNOW gods do not exist. But I don't recall anyone claiming to have proof or to be working towards obtaining proof.

In fact one of the primary "gripes" I've seen from most atheist thinkers is the rejection that there is ANY burden of proof on he who rejects an unsubstantiated claim. That's a classic shifting of the goal posts that theists of all types like to attempt. The notion that god(s) exist is the CLAIM. Therefore the burden of proof lies with the claimant. I can't prove a negative and don't have to. It is not incumbent upon me to prove WHY I fail to accept a completely unsubstantiated claim of ANY kind whether it be about gods, leprechauns, or werewolves.

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be denied without evidence," - Christopher Hitchens

"You're the one making the claim, you have to tell me why you believe it. I could walk around saying, 'Prove I can't fly,' and you'd say, 'Fuck you! Prove you can!'" - Ricky Gervais
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Old 01-09-2018, 10:33 PM   #13
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My self I don't really care if they believe in God or Not Its how they Treat Others and The Planet Not theology that counts
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Old 01-10-2018, 12:19 AM   #14
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I've not seen the series/show/lectures either. But if the topic is "Atheism" I would expect it to be announced in one way or another. For example, I saw Paul Reed Smith in a TEDx lecture; I didn't expect him to talk about Go...wait, I think he said God gave us tonewoods or somesuch. Never mind, bad example.


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"That which can be asserted without evidence can be denied without evidence," - Christopher Hitchens
Hey, hey. I could swear I used that quote in the tonewoods thread.
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Old 01-10-2018, 12:26 AM   #15
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Funny how this goes lol
the OP was stating that some state they are atheist when it doesn't have anything to do with the main subject, then the thread turns into a debate about God or no God.

We have our beliefs and it naturally offends us if someone tries to force change, or makes comments where our beliefs/side is stupid etc. Probably a lot of business for dentists when this happens in person
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Old 01-10-2018, 01:06 AM   #16
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Hey, hey. I could swear I used that quote in the tonewoods thread.
Tonewood? That isn't mystical hocus-pocus, though.
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Old 01-10-2018, 01:40 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Mr. Boston View Post
Can someone point me to an atheist thinker (actual research scientist or otherwise) who is ACTIVELY attempting to prove the universe is godless? I've watched a LOT of Hitchens, Dawkins, Krauss, Harris, etc. on YouTube and can't recall a single instance where any of them have professed to having actually been working on some kind of PROOF of the non-existence of god(s) or supernatural entities. I've seen numerous instances where some of the above have professed the opinion that these things don't exist, and even instances where they have embraced gnostic atheism - the position that they claim to KNOW gods do not exist. But I don't recall anyone claiming to have proof or to be working towards obtaining proof.

In fact one of the primary "gripes" I've seen from most atheist thinkers is the rejection that there is ANY burden of proof on he who rejects an unsubstantiated claim. That's a classic shifting of the goal posts that theists of all types like to attempt. The notion that god(s) exist is the CLAIM. Therefore the burden of proof lies with the claimant. I can't prove a negative and don't have to. It is not incumbent upon me to prove WHY I fail to accept a completely unsubstantiated claim of ANY kind whether it be about gods, leprechauns, or werewolves.

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be denied without evidence," - Christopher Hitchens

"You're the one making the claim, you have to tell me why you believe it. I could walk around saying, 'Prove I can't fly,' and you'd say, 'Fuck you! Prove you can!'" - Ricky Gervais
It was a bit of hyperbole intended as humor. I have never heard any one of the authors try to actively disprove the existence of anything supernatural. By definition, supernatural is that which is beyond scientific understanding.

Often it's working in the idea that the universe or some phenomena does not require God to make it work.
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Old 01-10-2018, 04:14 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by DanRode View Post
It was a bit of hyperbole intended as humor. I have never heard any one of the authors try to actively disprove the existence of anything supernatural. By definition, supernatural is that which is beyond scientific understanding.

Often it's working in the idea that the universe or some phenomena does not require God to make it work.
The definition of supernatural isn't that which is beyond scientific understanding. It is that which is beyond nature, beyond reality as we know it. The meaning of life or even the process of creating life is beyond scientific understanding but it isn't supernatural.
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Old 01-10-2018, 11:14 AM   #19
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I think that most people who have to constantly defend their position on anything are unsure and merely looking for affirmation from others that they're correct.
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Old 01-10-2018, 12:25 PM   #20
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The definition of supernatural isn't that which is beyond scientific understanding. It is that which is beyond nature, beyond reality as we know it. The meaning of life or even the process of creating life is beyond scientific understanding but it isn't supernatural.
Which is exactly what I said.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/de...n/supernatural
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/supernatural
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/supernatural
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