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Old 01-10-2018, 06:28 PM   #11
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Do dogs have morality? What drives the behaviour of fish or ants or flowers?
Hard to say, but they also don't wield a nuclear arsenal. Their judgment of things doesn't have the potential to end life on the planet.
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Old 01-10-2018, 06:31 PM   #12
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Really? (please don't call me delusional, that's a matter of prospective )
Now just think of this, if there was a being that could create a whole physical universe, couldn't he create the earth in 7 days (which would actually be slow even)? couldn't there be a gap theory? (how long ago 'was that 7 day period) Or couldn't He make to where it looked like it had been around longer? Or how long 'was a day' since there actually weren't 'days' before there was an earth to rotate and define a 'day'.

Also, religion and belief in God are two separate things.
That religion and belief in god are two different things is basically what im saying...I guess if you want to believe that the earth was created in 7 days you can, thats fine by me. However we do have plenty evidence for the opposite.

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Old 01-10-2018, 06:34 PM   #13
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That religion and belief in god are two different things is basically what im saying...I guess if you want to believe that the earth was created in 7 days you can, thats fine by me. However we do have plenty evidence for the opposite.

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Yes, religion is man made traditions, etc. there are a LOT of people who are 'religious' but are NOT even close to following God.

7 days...evidence? No, extrapolations based on what we now see.
read this part again
Now just think of this, if there was a being that could create a whole physical universe,

couldn't he create the earth in 7 days (which would actually be slow even)?
couldn't there be a gap theory? (how long ago 'was that 7 day period)
Or couldn't He make to where it looked like it had been around longer?
Or how long 'was a day' since there actually weren't 'days' before there was an earth to rotate and define a 'day'.
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Old 01-10-2018, 06:43 PM   #14
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One of my main research goals is trying to understand the fundamental question.
Science has pretty strong evidence that points to the big bang theory being correct. That kind of makes the book of Genesis redundant as the Earth would only be about 5,000 years old.

Energy can neither be created or destroyed. So the material that made up the singularity just before the big bang had to either (a) always existed or (b) been created by some force we don't understand.

Even if you look at the more out there explanations, such as the singularity was ejected from a black hole in a parallel universe, where did that universe come from?

Fundamental science states that any equation that involves infinity is wrong in some way. Although new studies show there are different values for infinity.

Anyone who dies, does not actually cease to exist. There atoms merely become part of something new. As for the question about meaningful life after death, I believe it may involve moving to a higher plain of existence.

As for heaven and hell, man made constructs to control the populous through hope and fear.

Google Epicurean Paradox if you want to see the 'God Myth' laid to rest.
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Old 01-10-2018, 06:43 PM   #15
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Let's make it simple. When I get to heaven, there won't be any atheist there for me to have to deal with. Problem solved.
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Old 01-10-2018, 06:44 PM   #16
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I think religion and science come from the same instinct, to explain the nature of life and the universe. Religion is simply science from a time when our own imagination was the most convincing instrument to analyse things.

What sort of "seals the deal" for me is that over the arc of human history science has ALWAYS explained away the perplexing phenomena previously attributed to the gods. It wasn't all that long ago that seizures were thought to be demonic possession. What we "believe" is eventually replaced by what we are able to prove.

I can't think of a single concept, behavior, or natural law that was at one time scientifically understood which was then later replaced by a more convincing and widely accepted divine or supernatural explanation. However, it happens the other way all the time. Phenomena previously attributed to gods, spirits, and supernatural creatures have been routinely debunked as they become scientifically understood - as our tools of investigation and observation improve. As our understanding of the natural laws of the universe expand, the supernatural diminishes. It's not that science is trying to make the universe godless, it's just replacing what was previously not understood with an understanding rooted in facts and data.

God therefore, in the words of Neil deGrasse Tyson, "Is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance that is getting smaller and smaller and smaller as time moves on." That doesn't mean there's an agenda behind this, it's just a simple truth that the more knowledge you have, the less faith you need.
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Old 01-10-2018, 06:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainDancer View Post
One of my main research goals is trying to understand the fundamental question.
Science has pretty strong evidence that points to the big bang theory being correct. That kind of makes the book of Genesis redundant as the Earth would only be about 5,000 years old.

Energy can neither be created or destroyed. So the material that made up the singularity just before the big bang had to either (a) always existed or (b) been created by some force we don't understand.

Even if you look at the more out there explanations, such as the singularity was ejected from a black hole in a parallel universe, where did that universe come from?

Fundamental science states that any equation that involves infinity is wrong in some way. Although new studies show there are different values for infinity.

Anyone who dies, does not actually cease to exist. There atoms merely become part of something new. As for the question about meaningful life after death, I believe it may involve moving to a higher plain of existence.

As for heaven and hell, man made constructs to control the populous through hope and fear.

Google Epicurean Paradox if you want to see the 'God Myth' laid to rest.
Those are great points.

Now heaven and hell..
What about this.....

What if there is a 'root dimension', and it's occupied by a lifeform that is conscious thought. From this higher dimension, physical matter is as small and simple, as easily manipulated via energy, strings, space, etc, as we would manipulate ingredients in the kitchen. And we are consciousness trapped temporarily in the physical environment of the brain. The brain is but a transducer linking physical sensory, controlling the physical form, etc, to this consciousness. Once consciousness is freed from the physical prison entrapping it, it naturally moves to another plane, but the consciousness of the 'that dimension' can pull us into that dimension where occupying it is a much more pleasant experience.
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Old 01-10-2018, 06:50 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Mr. Boston View Post
I think religion and science come from the same instinct, to explain the nature of life and the universe. Religion is simply science from a time when our own imagination was the most convincing instrument to analyse things.

What sort of "seals the deal" for me is that over the arc of human history science has ALWAYS explained away the perplexing phenomena previously attributed to the gods. It wasn't all that long ago that seizures were thought to be demonic possession. What we "believe" is eventually replaced by what we are able to prove.

I can't think of a single concept, behavior, or natural law that was at one time scientifically understood which was then later replaced by a more convincing and widely accepted divine or supernatural explanation. However, it happens the other way all the time. Phenomena previously attributed to gods, spirits, and supernatural creatures have been routinely debunked as they become scientifically understood - as our tools of investigation and observation improve. As our understanding of the natural laws of the universe expand, the supernatural diminishes. It's not that science is trying to make the universe godless, it's just replacing what was previously not understood with an understanding rooted in facts and data.

God therefore, in the words of Neil deGrasse Tyson, "Is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance that is getting smaller and smaller and smaller as time moves on." That doesn't mean there's an agenda behind this, it's just a simple truth that the more knowledge you have, the less faith you need.
Some say people who believe in God aren't being scientific, I say people who don't aren't giving science enough credit.
We know there is a possiblity of other dimensions right? We know there is unseen unobservable phenomena right?
(string theory, quantum physics, etc.)
Could there not be another dimension, where there is a being, that is naturally so 'scientifically' above us, that our physical space-time universe is but a simple lego set to him? What we call creation, to Him it's merely (here I'll make up a funky term lol) transmogrophying gravitational string properties into physical molecular formations. (did that sound scientific?lol).

We just can't 'know' we can only base things on our limited ability to observe. A fish in a fish tank thinks that tank is the whole universe.

And no one has asked, so I won't go into detail, but I'd love science to explain what we experienced in that house we lived in.
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Old 01-10-2018, 07:00 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by ronpfid View Post
Some say people who believe in God aren't being scientific, I say people who don't aren't giving science enough credit.
We know there is a possiblity of other dimensions right? We know there is unseen unobservable phenomena right?
(string theory, quantum physics, etc.)
Could there not be another dimension, where there is a being, that is naturally so 'scientifically' above us, that our physical space-time universe is but a simple lego set to him? What we call creation, to Him it's merely (here I'll make up a funky term lol) transmogrophying gravitational string properties into physical molecular formations. (did that sound scientific?lol).

We just can't 'know' we can only base things on our limited ability to observe. A fish in a fish tank thinks that tank is the whole universe.

And no one has asked, so I won't go into detail, but I'd love science to explain what we experienced in that house we lived in.
Yes - that is all DEFINITELY possible. My caveat is if we can't know for sure that such a creature in such a dimension even exists, how can we have even an IOTA of certainty that we know what it wants - that we'll make it angry by jerking off or eating bacon? Isn't if FAR more likely that powerful men capitalized on our fear of mortality to consolidate their power and enforce their rules? All while extracting untold wealth for themselves, I might add.

I wouldn't go so far as to say there is definitely not a god, or that a god is impossible. But RELIGION, is undoubtedly the work of Man, and for far less noble purposes than encouraging peace and brotherhood. That much seems abundantly clear to me.
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Old 01-10-2018, 07:01 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainDancer View Post
One of my main research goals is trying to understand the fundamental question.
Science has pretty strong evidence that points to the big bang theory being correct. That kind of makes the book of Genesis redundant as the Earth would only be about 5,000 years old.

Energy can neither be created or destroyed. So the material that made up the singularity just before the big bang had to either (a) always existed or (b) been created by some force we don't understand.

Even if you look at the more out there explanations, such as the singularity was ejected from a black hole in a parallel universe, where did that universe come from?

Fundamental science states that any equation that involves infinity is wrong in some way. Although new studies show there are different values for infinity.

Anyone who dies, does not actually cease to exist. There atoms merely become part of something new. As for the question about meaningful life after death, I believe it may involve moving to a higher plain of existence.

As for heaven and hell, man made constructs to control the populous through hope and fear.

Google Epicurean Paradox if you want to see the 'God Myth' laid to rest.
Agree about everything, but im not sure if the epicurean paradox lays what you call the god myth to rest. It might make literal christian belief that god is "good" difficult. However it doesnt make the belief in god impossible, if you dont think that he is "good". However there are also "ways around" for people that believe god is "good".

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