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Old 11-28-2017, 03:50 AM   #1
Old Guitar Dad
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Angry Facebook and Copyright

Well, what an interesting couple of days....

As you know I recently joined a band and we have had some fun jamming and taking vids of ourselves as we learn a new song... I have posted these vids on here, on my Youtube channel and also on our band's facebook page to share with family and friends.

Yesterday I received a notice from Facebook saying universal music had decided our cover of Barracuda by Heart was a breach of copyright and so it had been removed. If I wanted to contact Universal to ask them to retract the order to remove they gave me an email address.

I contacted the guy at Universal and politely asked for a retract... I get an immediate response which is obviously an auto response (cookie cutter wording) just giving them an opportunity to spruik the copyright laws etc.

Anyway they tell me I can post anything on Youtube because it is licensed but anything on Facebook is fair game for them to remove.

I wake up the next day to another message from Facebook saying they have banned me for 3 days for multiple copyright infringement and should contact Universal music, apparently they didn't like our cover of INXS's Never Tear Us Apart. I get directed to the same guy at Universal and he agrees to retract it so that I can at least go back into Facebook and remove all our vids (10+) otherwise I run the risk of being banned from Facebook for life if they don;t like any of our other ones.

So he does, and I go in and remove everything... only to find that the ban is still in place.. I can remove things but not post or use Messenger for another 3 days.

I am in favour of copyright protection for musicians/artists but I think the music publishers and management agents are spending huge amounts of money pursuing small fry cover bands and in turn adding a layer of costs to the artists cut. Surely they would be better off pursuing people that are making money out of other peoples music, not a bunch of 55+ yr olds having some fun and playing for free.

Your thoughts....
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Old 11-28-2017, 03:55 AM   #2
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While trying to get gigs for my old band I had several bars tell me they would only hire a band if they played originals because of infrigement issues. Bunch of nonsense !
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Old 11-28-2017, 04:14 AM   #3
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Youtube pays royalties to anyone doing covers. There's exceptions to copyright- educational purposes, criticism, etc.

Going after small fry is not the point. A copyrighted work is property. If you use that property without prior consent, you're infringing.

There's tens of thousands, maybe millions of places that can have music. Individually, they're "small fry." Collectively, that's one HUGE group that's potentially profiting from someone else's work.
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Old 11-28-2017, 04:42 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silimtao View Post
Youtube pays royalties to anyone doing covers.
My experience with Youtube has been different. I was paid no royalties for cover songs I posted but instead was notified that I was basically (and I don't recall the exact wording which was quite specific and legal in nature) in violation of using copyrighted material. These were videos of my cover band playing basic pop/rock covers...B-52s, Springsteen, Stones, Lady Gaga, etc.
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Old 11-28-2017, 04:47 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big John View Post
My experience with Youtube has been different. I was paid no royalties for cover songs I posted but instead was notified that I was basically (and I don't recall the exact wording which was quite specific and legal in nature) in violation of using copyrighted material. These were videos of my cover band playing basic pop/rock covers...B-52s, Springsteen, Stones, Lady Gaga, etc.
Sorry, my wording was poor. YT pays royalties to the copyright holder. If your YT channel is monetized, you may have gotten a takedown notice. YT has given takedown notices to people having a radio playing in the background.

YT is known to be kinda random with their takedown notices.
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Old 11-28-2017, 04:54 AM   #6
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So how can the guitar teachers in the USA do covers of songs that are a tease to get you to their website so you can buy a tutorial or other lessons? Even a guy like Marty always shows people how to play songs and then that gets many people to his site to buy paid lessons or pay to become a member. I know the UK and Canada people seem to by able to do it because laws are different there.

I know one teacher who is very good and will play through a cover for a song. If you want the full lesson and tabs then you subscribe to his site. It's inexpensive and you can even get most of it for a dollar a month using a service called Patreon. Before he shut the notices off he was taking in over $2300 a month and mostly people paying a buck a month. I don't see how they stay up?
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Old 11-28-2017, 05:21 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silimtao View Post

There's tens of thousands, maybe millions of places that can have music. Individually, they're "small fry." Collectively, that's one HUGE group that's potentially profiting from someone else's work.
I agree, however is it not a false economy to spend so much money chasing and punishing small fry (non profit type people) ie my band that doesn't do it for money, doesn't gig, instead spreads the love for a song written 40+ years ago. That extra layer of cost only benefits the management/record company and actually dilutes the return of the original artist. If it goes past that, the only people benefiting are the lawyers.

I am not against copyright, but there should be some common sense about it. Taking the law to the absolute lowest common denominator (easy targets) is not particularly palatable in my book. Only people to blame there are the record companies, not the artists.

What's next? We might find ourselves being slapped in jail at our next sing-along around the camp fire.
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Old 11-28-2017, 06:36 AM   #8
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If I was so famous that there were thousands of cover bands out there playing MY song in public every Friday and Saturday night, or posting covers of my song online... I sure as hell would hope to get my nickel or dime for every time they did it.
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Old 11-28-2017, 08:51 AM   #9
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There are exceptions allowed in the copyright laws. Fair Use, and Educational use are the two most used. If you want to get away with copyright infringement, you'll need to precede each video with some kind of educational statement explaining how its played or pointing out aspects of the tune that would indicate you are educating people about the tune. Whining about what they did isn't going to help. I would love for people to play my tunes but I would want my rightful royalties. I wrote my tunes, recorded my tunes, and played my tunes with hopes that people would enjoy them and be entertained by my work. I'm very particular about posting copyrighted material. Have I ever posted a copyrighted tune? Yes, once and I was very uncomfortable about posting it.
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Old 11-28-2017, 12:45 PM   #10
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I'll add my unrequested, semi-informed $0.02.

I dislike the current copyright system. I'm only familiar with the US laws and even then, only in passing way. IMO, it protects the profits of a few without giving much back to society.

The idea behind copyright (and patent) laws is to promote the creation of new works for the public good by granting the creator a limited period of time of exclusive control. After that, the work becomes public domain and everyone is free to use that work in whatever manner they like.

Disney, for example, has built an empire using public domain stories. They mostly retold old stories through animation. That's the way it should work. Creative work falls into the public domain where others build upon it in some way and we all gain.

Disney however, wants copyright protection that extends forever. They want to build on the past but no one should be able to build on their works.

We started with 14 years of copyright protection. Mickey was born into a world that gave Disney 56 years of protection (1930). That was extended over time to the life of the author plus 70 years. The mouse goes public domain in 2023. Expect Disney to lobby again for extended copyright protection. Life plus 100, 150? May as well be forever.

I think we should reverse course and reduce the period to not more than 50 years but I'd prefer less than 25. I'd also suggest an initial exclusive period of perhaps 15-20 followed by a set fee licensing scheme. It would allow people to use the work in certain ways for known fees. I want to see creative work become freely available much faster so that new artists can more easily build upon it.

FWIW, I'm also prefer a system where we had lots of working musicians and few if any multi-millionaire acts. I'd much prefer a world where more people could support themselves through music.
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