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Old 04-12-2017, 09:47 PM   #1
Morfz
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Default Could this be a good way to approach the fretboard

So... Im currently on holiday without any guitars. Im trying to figure out a few things I can work on next. Fretboard knowledge, scales, arpeggios, chords and chord tones is something I want to work on specifically. So I have a "plan" or whatever, and I would like some feedback and help.

So say that I play over a simple 12 bar blues in A. I already know my pentatonic and my major and minor scales. What im thinking I should do is learn what intervals these are made up of and also know them on the fretboard. So for example the minor penta is the 1 b3 4 5 b7 of the minor scale. Then I can connect this interval knowledge with arpeggios and chords and chord tones. So Instead of learning zillions of arpeggio shapes etc I just know how they are created and can play and create them on the fly.

For example... Im playing in this A dominant blues. I then know what intervals create an a dominant arpeggio, 1 3 5 b7. I could know where all the intervals are by relation to the root note then. For example the 3rd is up one string back one fret from the root, except for the G string which is tuned as a major third to the B string. The 5th is down one string and the 7th is back one fret and so on.

So... Sorry for the long and kinda undefined question, but would this kind of approach be good ? To learn to recognize intervals and know how chords and arpeggios are created and know what intervals im playing in the scales and so on. Instead of learning shapes and not really knowing what im doing.
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Old 04-12-2017, 10:02 PM   #2
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Sounds like a good approach to me. I think it's great to think in terms of intervals rather than absolute notes...ultimately that's what it's all about. Though you may not think of the specific note you are playing, you aren't at the other extreme where you are just working through a shape. You just gotta remember where home, your root note, can be found.

I'm curious to hear how chord tones and arpeggios help your playing. It was an step I had planned on taking in my learning a year or so ago and I gave up .
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Old 04-12-2017, 11:30 PM   #3
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I agree with Squid. My knowledge on this is not great on paper but you should always know where the 1 note is as it is always safe. It's good to also know where the 4 and 5 are also. Once you know where the 1 is the 4 and 5 will always be in the same place in relation to it. In blues landing on the 1 for every chord change usually is safe and landing on the 4 and 5 for those chord changes always sounds good. A lot of times the 5 note will set up going to the 1 or 4. All the info here Im giving you is pretty basic but I think it serves a purpose.
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Old 04-13-2017, 04:24 AM   #4
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Recognizing intervals is great. Hearing them is better in my opinion. I've gotten way better in knowing what interval to expect when playing (I'm not a pattern player; I'm sure I play the 5 boxes, but only know "box 1") and can move up and down the fretboard, mostly without even looking. If you pointed out an interval to me on the fretboard, but if I were playing, I'd generally know what I'd hear, without necessarily knowing what the interval is called, if that makes any sense.

But I think you've got a good plan. There's phone apps for this, ya know.

Paul Gilbert mapped out the entire fretboard on paper, and figured out all kinds of intervallic relationships.

As an exercise: I'll assume you know box one. Move down 2 frets from a minor pent scale, and see if you see AND hear the intervals. Of course, it's way easier with a guitar in hand, but it'll be a hell of an exercise.
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Old 04-13-2017, 08:32 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by BallisticSquid View Post
Sounds like a good approach to me. I think it's great to think in terms of intervals rather than absolute notes...ultimately that's what it's all about. Though you may not think of the specific note you are playing, you aren't at the other extreme where you are just working through a shape. You just gotta remember where home, your root note, can be found.

I'm curious to hear how chord tones and arpeggios help your playing. It was an step I had planned on taking in my learning a year or so ago and I gave up .
Okay ! Full speed ahead then !!

Yeah Its pretty daunting but im really gonna try and do it. I can already play decently using chord tones in a simple blues. But it gets waaay harder with different chord progressions. I definately think arpeggios and chord tones could evolve my playing, but we will see
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Old 04-13-2017, 08:35 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Cobalt View Post
I agree with Squid. My knowledge on this is not great on paper but you should always know where the 1 note is as it is always safe. It's good to also know where the 4 and 5 are also. Once you know where the 1 is the 4 and 5 will always be in the same place in relation to it. In blues landing on the 1 for every chord change usually is safe and landing on the 4 and 5 for those chord changes always sounds good. A lot of times the 5 note will set up going to the 1 or 4. All the info here Im giving you is pretty basic but I think it serves a purpose.
Yep ! This is basically my knowledge in this matter. I know how to solo using chord tones in a simple I IV V to some extent. I wanna expand my knowledge though, so that I can solo using arpeggios and chord tones in any progression.
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Old 04-13-2017, 08:39 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Silimtao View Post
Recognizing intervals is great. Hearing them is better in my opinion. I've gotten way better in knowing what interval to expect when playing (I'm not a pattern player; I'm sure I play the 5 boxes, but only know "box 1") and can move up and down the fretboard, mostly without even looking. If you pointed out an interval to me on the fretboard, but if I were playing, I'd generally know what I'd hear, without necessarily knowing what the interval is called, if that makes any sense.

But I think you've got a good plan. There's phone apps for this, ya know.

Paul Gilbert mapped out the entire fretboard on paper, and figured out all kinds of intervallic relationships.

As an exercise: I'll assume you know box one. Move down 2 frets from a minor pent scale, and see if you see AND hear the intervals. Of course, it's way easier with a guitar in hand, but it'll be a hell of an exercise.
Yeah, as you say, hearing them is best, but dont you think that if I learn to recognize intervals I will easier develop my ability of hearing them ?

I might do something similar as Paul G and just map everything out could probably be really good.

What do you mean with the excersise? I dont quite understand.
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morfz View Post
Yeah, as you say, hearing them is best, but dont you think that if I learn to recognize intervals I will easier develop my ability of hearing them ?

I might do something similar as Paul G and just map everything out could probably be really good.

What do you mean with the excersise? I dont quite understand.
Recognizing intervals is more an exercise. If I teach my son what a perfect 4th is, that will only serve him in knowing what a perfect 4th is. *Hearing* it, and having it under your fingers is another matter. Ideally, you'll have both. By "recognize," I mean simply being able to identify it by sight.

The exercise I mentioned takes you out of your comfort zone. It will be unfamiliar territory. Your ears should guide you back. Remember: you're always a semitone away from a "right" note. If you hit a bad note, you can slide up or down a half step to make it right. The trick is to make it sound intentional. It *works particularly well in dominant blues.

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Last edited by Silimtao; 04-13-2017 at 02:25 PM.
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Old 04-13-2017, 02:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silimtao View Post
Recognizing intervals is more an exercise. If I teach my son what a perfect 4th is, that will only serve him in knowing what a perfect 4th is. *Hearing* it, and having it under your fingers is another matter. Ideally, you'll have both. By "recognize," I mean simply being able to identify it by sight.

The exercise I mentioned takes you out of your comfort zone. It will be unfamiliar territory. Your ears should guide you back. Remember: you're always a semitone away from a "right" note. If you hit a bad note, you can slide up or down a half step to make it right. The trick is to make it sound intentional. It *works particularly well in dominant blues.

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In the end I think it will all come together...as long as you spend time working with it with your guitar in your hand. You need to train both your fingers AND your ears. The idea is you hear something in your and you should be able to get right to it on the fretboard. But to recognize the interval in your head you need to know what it sounds like. Knowing the name of the interval is good to know in the same way it's good to know the name of a chord, but perhaps not required as Slim points out.

I don't really recognize intervals per se, I have developed a sense of hearing where home is and dancing around it.
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Old 04-13-2017, 02:46 PM   #10
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Oh, I should add that I worked through a book called the Guitar Fretboard Workbook. It was supposed to teach you where all the notes are on the fretboard, arpeggios, and so on. Part of it had you take the major scale formula (W-W-H-W-W-W-H) and map out on paper the scale shapes for each position.

It was great, except for the fact that I found myself where I could draw the stuff on paper but struggled to visualize it STILL on the fretboard. Perhaps that's my own deficiency .

Stuff didn't start to stick until I had a guitar in my hands.
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