jase

As i posted in another thread,i have been working a lot on the five penta shapes,and i have them down pretty good.

I was watching Justin Sandercoe,explain that you should know the root notes of the scale your playing,so i mapped out some charts and marked out the root notes of each scale for reference,for example at the 5th position 1st form i got the A root notes,and C root notes,which leaves a pair of D,E,G,of which i will go back to when i get these other roots down.

Right,i know im learning the roots,but what does it all relate to ?.I have read as much as i can about the root,but its been pretty vague.

After learning this,and understanding its purpose,where do you think my next area of study should be ?.

Silimtao

That's a great question, jase, and often a source of confusion here. I'll try to expand on the very basics of music theory, as taught to me by classical and jazz theorists.

Roots relate to the parent, or major scale. Learn all the major scales, and where the sharps and flats are. Every note in a scale is assigned a scale degree. E.g. for D major, we have, D, E, F#, G, A, B C# then D again.

A basic major triad (3 notes) is built on the 1st, 3rd, and 5th notes of a major scale. So, for D, it would be: D, F#, A. You may see this as R(oot), 3, 5. This holds for any major scale.

You should focus on how major scales are constructed, and their intervals. There's a thread here with the breakdown of intervals. That's just a jumping off point.

Quite frankly, I hate talking about theory, but I hate it even more when someone asks a basic question and turns it into a quadratic equation. I hope I've answered your question. If not, tell me what you don't understand, and I'll try to clarify, or someone else may. If someone else does answer, please, keep it simple.

You may want to look at the discussion here: How chords are made

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jase

Thanks silim,and yeah i didn't want you or anyone else drawn into theory over what i asked.I was reading more on it concerning the way you would use the root of the scale to determine the key you might me playing in,if that's right.

Im looking at it in actual application,and i think that's how most would like it explained,turning the theory into actual practice.

Budda

ROOT

It's the Note that gives a Chord it's LETTER NAME.

Examples:

C is the ROOT NOTE of these Chords (and more!):

C Cm C7 CM7 C9 Csus2 Csus4

G is the ROOT NOTE of these Chords (and more.):

G Gm G7 GM7 G9 Gsus2 Gsus4

Bb is the ROOT NOTE of these Chords (and more.):

Bb Bbm Bb7 BbM7 Bb9 Bbsus2 Bbsus4

You need 3 Notes for a most basic form of Chord. You need a Root, a 3rd. and a 5th.
The ROOT gives the LETTER NAME.
The 3rd. determines it's Major or Minor qualities.
The 5th. works with the ROOT to build the Skeleton/Frame of the Chord (Triad).


ROOT

The ROOT NOTE of a Scale gives IT, it's LETTER NAME.

Example:

G is the ROOT NOTE of these Scales (and more.):

G Major Gm Pentatonic G Mixolydian G Diminished



Sometimes the word TONIC will be a better choice. But, that is more specific and not what you were asking.

I hope this helps, without muddying the waters.

jase

Right, so as an example basically i can safley play a Gm pent Scale over a G chord progression?.

lespaulgb

Kinda, for a blues or a minor progression, yeah you're pretty safe.

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Silimtao

OK, let's back up. Since the title of this thread is Roots. Budda expanded on what root notes are. The root note is like the anchor. Like in the thread I think you started in noodling around the fretboard to find the "right" sound. There's the key signature, which should give you the "anchor" or sound that everything ends on, or resolves to. Something in the key of G Major normally will end on the G, the root, or tonic note of the G Major scale.

Chords have a root also. Starting on the bottom note of the chord (the root), you stack chords up in 3rds (see thread I linked on how to build chords). OK, that's 2 variations of roots.

Because a scale starts on the same name root, doesn't mean that scale is necessarily a good fit over a specific key. Staying in the key of G: a very common chord progression would be G, C, D- all major chords, and all containing notes from the G Major scale. (This is also known as a I, IV, V, I progression; play it. Sound familiar? It's been used in about a billion popular tunes). G, C, and D is a common G Major progression.

Would a G Minor pentatonic scale fit well over a G Major progression? The short answer is no. Why? A G minor pentatonic scale is made up of these notes: G, A#, C, D, E. What's wrong with this picture? Now this has to do with knowing scales. Despite the G Major and G Minor scales having the same root, they are constructed differently. I don't want to turn this into a quadratic equation, so the simple answer is, no, a G minor pent scale will not sound very well over a G Major progression, anymore than a C Minor pent over a C Major progression.

The A# in the G Minor pent is what throws it out of whack. There's only one sharp in G major, and that's F#. The G Major pentatonic, may be a better fit because the G Major pent consists of these notes: G,A,B,D,E. So you're thinking, what pentatonic shape does this form? If you know all the shapes of the pentatonic box, you may arrive at a familiar shape. You didn't ask, so I wont tell you. But I'll give you a hint. Play shape one starting on the 12th fret. The first note is E. Now, you may be thinking you're in E minor because the "root" is now E, right? Yes, and no. The root, getting back to the thread title does not always have to be on the 6th string. What's important here is, you're playing the G Maj pent starting on a different note, and the shape should be familiar to you.
I know you may be confused by now. If you have a headache, google "how to construct a pentatonic scale." Being that you know the pentatonic scale, this is really important. When you begin to understand this, you'll understand why the E minor penatonic scale fits over a G Major progression. But that's for another time. Just some food for though.

(if I screwed this up, anyone, feel free to facepalm me)

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The Smitchens

I know this is pretty much nitpicking, but it would actually be written G, Bb, C, D, F. Minor Pentatonics have 7ths instead of 6ths so the E is actually F. The Bb would also be canon over A# because on paper A# is still viewed as a 2nd in relation to a G. They sound the same, but in writing there is a different purpose for writing it that way. Function over fashion. Other than that the principles that Slim is talking about are all very much so accurate sonically speaking. Playing Minor over Major almost always guarantees you a crappy sound.

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Silimtao

Time for me to be a bit nit-picky. Minor over Major sounds great! But which Minor?

Getting back to roots. Playing the root minor pent over the same named root Major progression sounds lousy. Going back to Budda's chart of scales, he was just naming off some scales with a common root name. A common root name, in this case G, will not guarantee good results.

G minor pent over G Major progression= not good

? very common minor pent over G Major progression= guranteed good results. But ya didn't ask, jase, so I'll leave it there for now. To answer this, you'll need to get into relative major and minors. If you don't have basic scales and chord construction down, I suggest you stay away from that.

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Clifford D

That's great, since you're working with pents, are you playing blues/rock?
Until I hear different, that's what I'll assume.


Wow, too hard, not needed What you need is the background chord, let's say it's A7, all the pents serve that A7 tonality, tonality is an important word to understand. A is homebase, it's the parent, it's the root, it's the tonic, in the blues it's the one that pays the bills so it's paid the cost to be the boss. The root has the most gravity or draw, it is the point of rest.

The pents have five tones, and in the blues there are two pents, the major pent and the minor pent.

major...............................minor
|---------------------------------------------|
|---------------------------------------------|
|---------------------------------------------|
|-----------4-7-------------------------5-7-|
|-------4-7-------------------------5-7-----|
|---5-7-------------------------5-8---------|

both pents are used together, they get mixed up like this
A7
|---------5---8-5-7---5-----------5-|
|-------5---5-------7---8-5----------|
|---5-6---------------------7-5-6----|
|---------------------------------------|
|---------------------------------------|
|---------------------------------------|


A major pent
A - root
B - 2nd
C - 3rd
E - 5th
F# 6th

A minor pent
A - root
C - b3rd
D - 4th
E - 5th
G - b7

In both scales only one root.

Get deeper into modern western music, that includes all the diatonic posts in this thread as well as the blues slant that I'm sharing.

The subject is harmony. Two kinds common to western music, 1. diatonic (do re mi) 2. Blues (the world of microbends)

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